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Setup Help With Acer Dynamic 1340g

Discussion in 'ACER LATHES' started by Mr.Miz, Dec 30, 2016.

?

Keep trying to convert the Controls or throw in the towel and use the VFD only?

  1. CONVERT - resistence is futile

    1 vote(s)
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  2. Lose the old and busted and stick with the new hotness -

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  1. Mr.Miz

    Mr.Miz United States Active Member Active Member

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    Ok I've got the VFD working

    Forward, Reverse, Speed control at the VFD. Still need to order the speed pot.

    Now I just have to get the lathe controls working. The only thing that I really don't understand is the jog button. I'm going to rewire the contactors for momentary push. I think this will work the best as my forward and reverse is one leaver, and will hold down the switch until I "shift" the leaver out of the direction it's going and up into the next.

    I uploaded a simple drawing of the wiring let me know if I'm even close. I haven't attempted to hook the control board up to the VFD yet as I'm still working on getting the contactors to behave as I would expect. Let me know what you think. I'll also try and get a picture of the forward/Reverse leaver switches to see if that explains what/if neutral should be.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. mksj

    mksj Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    The simple drawing does not have a system to prevent the system from restarting if you leave the spindle lever engaged. The spindle STOP position is used to reset the power relay. Normally the JOG button would be a momentary button that would activate the forward contactor/relay when depressed. So this is a full speed bump. It is also possible to wire it to directly activate the VFD inputs to JOG the machine and bypass the use of contactors. You might be a whole lot better off in not using the contactors and just use a single 4 pole relay control circuit. You can keep the stock transformer to power the lights, accessories. If you can not get your contactors to work as you want or want to do the single relay design, I have a control board from a 1340GT that I can rewire to fit your system. I would need to remount it on a larger control board and add a coolant contactor if you plan to use that in the future.
    Mark
     
  3. Mr.Miz

    Mr.Miz United States Active Member Active Member

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    Thanks Mark I don't 100% think I understand, but I do have everything functioning the way I expect it to now. I move the lever up and it engages the forward contactor through the NC on the reverse. I move the lever to the middle and it disengages the contactor. I move the lever down and it engages the Reverse contactor through the NC on the forward. Stop button stops everything until reset. Foot brake stops everything until it's released. I'll look at wiring the jog directly to the VFD as well as adding a speed pot. Thanks for all the help I think I'm really close.
     
  4. bench

    bench Korea, Republic of Iron Registered Member

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    According to the manual of your lathe the jog switch is between line 4 and line 6 that activates the forward contactor. Line 9 activates the reverse contactor. You may use a DPDT switch to wire the lines and the VFD jog input to run the jog in both forward and reverse directions. I find having jog in both directions is very useful in meshing the gears and tapping.
     
  5. Mr.Miz

    Mr.Miz United States Active Member Active Member

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    So something like this?
    https://www.automationdirect.com/ad...d_-a-_Non-Illuminated/Incandescent/GCX3281-24

    https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-Unive...qid=1485232027&sr=8-2&keywords=dpdt+momentary
     
  6. mksj

    mksj Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    You can use a simple ON-ON bat type toggle switch that switches the return power to either the forward or reverse contactor, along with the current momentary push button. So this will set the bump direction.

    I do something a bit different on my builds, I use a single 2 position momentary joystick, push up it connects the reverse contactor and down for the forward. These connect just like you spindle switch connections in parallel. So like a spindle switch that shuts off when it returns to center.

    If you add another set of normally open contact blocks, these can be connected to P24 from the VFD to input 3 which sets the jog speed of 6 Hz. So you have two separate circuits operating. One set of contact switch blocks operates the forward or reverse contactor that then sends the spindle direction to the VFD. The other two connect to P24 and send the JOG speed signal. Otherwise the jog speed will be at the setting of the speed pot.
    jog sw.jpg front panel.jpg
    https://www.automationdirect.com/ad...s_-z-_Indicators/22mm_Metal/Joysticks/ECX1510
    https://www.automationdirect.com/ad...shbutton_Accessories/Contact_Blocks/ECX1040-2

    You need to be aware that there are usually additional safety or redundancy in these system that would only allow the Jog to operate when the machine is in the stop position. You would not want the spindle lever in one direction and then accidentally hit the jog in the other direction. You could get the system up and running and also make these changes at a later time. On my lathe I just have a forward jog, I only use the JOG to check gear engagement and check TIR.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2017
  7. bench

    bench Korea, Republic of Iron Registered Member

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  8. Mr.Miz

    Mr.Miz United States Active Member Active Member

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    confused. I've got the speed pot all wired up to 2,5, and 6 on the terminal, but I'm not sure what to set in the code to control high and low. Below is the manual, i was looking at P156 and P160, P161, but I'm not sure I'm understanding what I should be setting to get the Pot to adjust correctly. I have the same Pot as in the above posts.

    it's a 5k pot https://www.automationdirect.com/ad...dicators/22mm_Metal/Potentiometers/ECX2300-5K

    http://www.precision-elec.com/wp-co...ch-smvector-operating-instructions-manual.pdf
     
  9. mksj

    mksj Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Suggested starting point for the Lenze SMV VFD programming parameters and explanations. It assumes you are using 2 wire control, this is a starting point:

    P100 Start Control Source = 1 (Uses terminal strip to set start/stop source)
    P101 Standard Reference Source = 1 (selects the speed source as 0-10VDC)
    P103 Maximum Frequency = 75.0 (allows a little more top end speed range, and wider speed adjustment)
    P104 Acceleration Time 1 = 5 seconds
    P105 Deceleration Time 1 = 3 seconds (you need a braking resistor for anything shorter)
    P111 Stop Method = 2 (The drive will ramp the motor to a stop according to P105 or P126)
    P112 Rotation = 1 (Allows the motor to run in both forward AND reverse)

    These configure the terminals inputs as to what they do, they are by default all turned off
    Assuming you are using straight 2 wire controls (i.e. NOT using 3 wire start-stop-reverse) then:
    P121 TB-13A Digital Input = 11 would be START FORWARD

    P122 TB-13B Digital Input = 12 would be START REVERSE

    P123 TB-13C Digital Input = 15 would be JOG FORWARD

    P124 TB-13D Digital Input = 16 would be JOG REVERSE

    P160 Speed at Minimum Signal = 0 (Hz)
    P161 Speed at Maximum Signal = 75 (Hz, should be the same as P103)
    P162 Analogue Input Filter = 0.5 (seconds, this will decrease motor speed wandering because of electrical noise)
    P166 Carrier Frequency = 2 (sets carrier frequency to 8 kHz, if the motor whine is loud set it to 3 which is 10kHz)

    Vector Parameters, these MUST be set to your motor parameters
    P300 Drive Mode = 5 (Vector Torque or constant torque)
    P302 Motor Rated Voltage = usually either 220V or 230V (Set to motor nameplate voltage)
    P303 Motor Rated Current = _ _ _ (Set to motor nameplate amperage)
    P304 Motor Rated Frequency = 60 (Hz, this is the base frequency of the motor on the nameplate)
    P305 Motor Speed = _ _ _ _ (RPM, set to motor nameplate RPM at 60Hz)

    P399 Motor Auto calibration = When you machine is up and running and everything is working, you can run this to fine tune the motor parameters.
     
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  10. Mr.Miz

    Mr.Miz United States Active Member Active Member

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    Yup it was just that simple. Wow did I go down the wrong rabbit hole there. Thanks!


     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2017
  11. Mr.Miz

    Mr.Miz United States Active Member Active Member

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    mksj or anybody else out there listening. I've got one last thing that has been bugging me, and I was wondering if anybody know if there was a fix. So as above I have configured:

    P121 TB-13A Digital Input = 11 would be START FORWARD
    P122 TB-13B Digital Input = 12 would be START REVERSE

    but what has been making me nuts is when neither TB-13A or TB-13B are closed it currently continues spinning forward. I was hoping that with both open it would stop spinning. Almost like a neutral control at the directional switch. Anybody have any thoughts why it could continue forward when neither is closed?

    Everything else is working fine it's just one of those little things that's been bugging me.
     
  12. mksj

    mksj Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    My error, so per above parameters it is setup for 3 wire control with momentary switches, in order to stop you would need to have a NC stop switch that opens to interrupt the sustained run command. If you are using two wire control with sustained ON switches like the spindle direction switch, you need to use 2 wire control as shown below. The danger of this is that the lathe will restart after loss of power or the lever is accidentally knocked into the on position. Some VFDs have additional programing parameters to prevent this.
    Change:
    P121 TB-13A Digital Input = 13 Run Forward
    P122 TB-13B Digital Input = 14 Run Reverse
    SMV P121, 122.jpg
     
  13. Mr.Miz

    Mr.Miz United States Active Member Active Member

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    OK tried change P121 and p122 to 13 and 14 and it says fault. So I must have the wiring for start, but the switchs are for run. Here are the switches below


    And here is how I believe I have it wired:

    wiring.jpg
    So does that look right? for "Run" 2 wire mode rather than 3wire?
     
  14. mksj

    mksj Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I seems like there is a problem with the Assertion Level which has to do with what is known as Sink and Source configuration, this determines the control inputs are setup as positive or negative terminals. The first thing is to check that the switch ALsw is set to negative. Per the diagram on page 20 it may be that the E-Stop may need to be in a NO configuration, and that closing issues a stop command. Try the current configuration with the E-Stop in the open configuration and see it the controls work.

    Try setting the P120 Assertion Level to "1" instead of the default of 2.

    Assertion Level Fault.jpg

    Just saw your picture of the spindle switch wiring, and I think that may be the issue. The stop wire should not be connected. The spindle switch is setup with an input. You need to determine which terminal/wire is connected to the common input wire and closed (connected) for forward and which is (connected) for reverse. You do not use the stop wire terminal. You can check these with an ohmmeter. You need to see which is the common (input terminal), this needs to be connected together to the TB4/1 wire. You then need to set the spindle switch and see which contact is activated (closed) this goes to 13A, then in the reverse spindle setting the contact that closes and that goes to 13B.

    Based on an old schematic for this lathe it looks like the following but you would need to check the connections first:
    5 is forward would be connected to VFD terminal 13A
    6 is reverse would be connected to VFD terminal 13B
    7 is stop so would not be connected
    8 is the common input would be connected to VFD terminal 4 and also the E-Stop/brake switch going to VFD terminal 1
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2017
  15. Mr.Miz

    Mr.Miz United States Active Member Active Member

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    Ok is the stop wire the bottom wire that is jumpered from one switch to the other? I tried switching the wires as recommended but then only forward worked. Just got the command down from the boss lady the in-laws are here... will go back out tonight with my ohmmeter to do some investigation.. thanks again.
     
  16. mksj

    mksj Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    It is a switch connection issue if the forward is now working. Leave the jumper. Using the current wiring, do not connect the wire #7 to anything, in the old system it was used to latch the power relay. Connect the wires labeled 5, 6 and 8 as described. You should disconnect the wires from the VFD end and check that when in forward, 5 and 8 have continuity, and not any other combination, when in reverse 6 and 8 have continuity and not other combination. The red jumper wire on the switch block needs to be left on if you use the wiring as connected.

    There is also a different way that everything could also be connected if you start with everything disconnected from the switches, where both switch commons are connected to VFD terminal 4 and also the E-Stop/brake switch going to VFD terminal 1, and then one switch should close on forward (this is than wired to VFD terminal 13A), and the other closes on reverse (this is wired to 13B).
     
  17. Mr.Miz

    Mr.Miz United States Active Member Active Member

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    Alright some success! Only one small issue with the switch in "neutral" when I first power everything up it is off, however when I switch to forward or reverse , then back to neutral it continues running/spinning. If I tap the foot break it turns off and says off. I've confirmed that in neutral the VFD light is neither in forward or reverse . I'm 99% happy with it right now and if there isn't anything to control that I'm fine with tapping the foot break. I'm just wonder if there is any controls to give me that last 1%?
     

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