1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. PLEASE: Read the FORUM RULES BEFORE registering!

    Dismiss Notice

Gorton 9J came home to roost.

Discussion in 'GORTON MACHINE CORPORATION' started by cathead, Mar 30, 2017.

  1. cathead

    cathead Active User Active Member

    Likes Received:
    623
    Trophy Points:
    93
    City:
    Bemidji
    State:
    Minnesota

    -Return to Top-

    Today was hauling day and the Gorton 9J 3700 pound vertical mill is sitting in my driveway.
    Unloading was somewhat interesting but uneventful thankfully. There are several things to fix and
    lots of cleaning to do so will be busy with this for a while. The serial number is in the 191 range
    so I am thinking it is a war vintage machine. Also, I see it has a U.S. government data tag on it.
    I saved it from the salvage yard as it was slated to be shipped out and melted down. I am going to need
    a good oil can for this machine as there are Gits oilers by the score. These machines are somewhat top heavy with the motor up high and weighing at least 150 pounds or so. I will have to make a spot for it in the corner of the
    shop or possibly build a lean to roof and keep it there. The biggest repair I see is the cross feed screw being
    bent. Also I am going to be in need of several feed wheels. Anyway, it's all good fun and hopefully it
    can be restored to operating condition with some TLC and a fresh coat of paint. Here are several photos
    as we unloaded the machine from the trailer. We had no way to lift it so had to slide it off the back of the trailer.
    The last photo shows a little frosting on the Y axis ways so hopefully it has some life left.
    Also, I was surprised that the table other than a bit rusty had no marks, or drill holes in it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2017
  2. Bob Korves

    Bob Korves H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    3,380
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    USA
    City:
    Sacramento
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    Those are nice old mills. What spindle taper does it have?
     
    cathead likes this.
  3. cathead

    cathead Active User Active Member

    Likes Received:
    623
    Trophy Points:
    93
    City:
    Bemidji
    State:
    Minnesota

    -Return to Top-

    Hi Bob,

    I am pretty sure it is a Brown and Sharpe #10

    Burt
     
    4gsr likes this.
  4. FOMOGO

    FOMOGO United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    1,129
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Colorado
    City:
    Steamboat Springs
    State:
    Colorado

    -Return to Top-

    Good on you for saving her. Should be plenty rigid. Will be looking forward to updates. Cheers, Mike
     
    Bob Korves and cathead like this.
  5. RandyM

    RandyM United States Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    819
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Stoughton
    State:
    Wisconsin

    -Return to Top-

    What a great restoration project, you lucky dog.
     
    cathead likes this.
  6. cathead

    cathead Active User Active Member

    Likes Received:
    623
    Trophy Points:
    93
    City:
    Bemidji
    State:
    Minnesota

    -Return to Top-

    Yesterday was day one for the 9J mill. The Y axis is free now and looks reasonably OK. The quill was
    my biggest concern as it was stuck pretty tight. After much disassembly, It became free and operable.
    The crank drive for the quill was taken apart as it was stuck as well. The tapered pin was sheared so
    had to make a new one for the reassembly process. The head part is functioning now so on to more
    cleaning and work on the lower areas. The bearings in the head seem OK but time will tell I guess.
    I am going to have to run a lot of oil through the bearings until any traces of rust are gone. The bearings
    themselves look OK and are not rusted. Today looks to be a rain day so the machine is tarp covered
    at least till the rain subsides. More later.....

    By the way, does anyone have any tips for flushing the quill bearings out?
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2017
    Ulma Doctor likes this.
  7. cathead

    cathead Active User Active Member

    Likes Received:
    623
    Trophy Points:
    93
    City:
    Bemidji
    State:
    Minnesota

    -Return to Top-

    I made some progress today. I did a repair on the X axis feed rod as it was bent and the support broken.
    I brazed the cast iron support and straightened the threaded rod. I don't know what it is made of but it
    certainly resisted my efforts to be straightened. It isn't perfect but generally pretty good now. The Y axis
    after cleaning and oiling works like a dream. I made a new handle crank for the X or Y axis as it can be moved
    to either position. Also, I took apart all the gearing and cleaned up inside the gearbox. There was a lot of swarf
    in the gears behind the table. Here's a few more photos of my progress.


    [ 2017 at 2:35 PM[/GALLERY] Above photo is of my brazing repair of the X axis support.









    Also with all the disassembly, I learned what most of the controls are so when it
    comes time to power it up, it won't be a big surprise.

    Another thing, now I know why 4GSR(Ken) mentioned that cranking the Z axis crank is no fun!
    I have to guess the table and gearbox ETC weighs 500 pounds or so!
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2017
    RandyM and Ulma Doctor like this.
  8. Ulma Doctor

    Ulma Doctor Infinitely Curious Active Member

    Likes Received:
    2,717
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Ethereal Plane
    City:
    Tracy
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    what a beautiful piece of iron! :drool:
     
    cathead likes this.
  9. cathead

    cathead Active User Active Member

    Likes Received:
    623
    Trophy Points:
    93
    City:
    Bemidji
    State:
    Minnesota

    -Return to Top-

    Thanks! This thing really isn't that worn out. I can't see any appreciable wear on the threaded rods. Basically
    it is in pretty good condition generally. It was outside for over a year and there was not one control that
    wasn't rusted solid, even the quill was stuck. I managed to loosen it by putting a hydraulic jack on the
    table and pushing up. Also, lack of general care was noted. Whoever ran this machine was a lower
    eschelon machinist in my opinion. On the positive side, it came to me for pennies on the dollar.:)
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2017
    Ulma Doctor likes this.
  10. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    2,089
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Victoria, Texas
    City:
    Victoria
    State:
    Texas

    -Return to Top-

    Each turn of the elevation handwheel is 0.050". Most mills one turn is 0.100". Thats why I mentioned you'll be there a while raising and lowering the knee. Ken
     
    cathead likes this.
  11. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    314
    Trophy Points:
    63
    City:
    Mountain View
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    Ummm I can smell the old oil from here. Sweet.
    Nice brazing job on the bracket- did you do the sand embedding thing to cool it slow? Any special techniques or black magic?
    Mark S.
     
  12. Silverbullet

    Silverbullet Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    689
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Marlton
    State:
    New Jersey

    -Return to Top-

    I'd mix up some acetone and transmission fluid , to clean it and the bearings . After cleaning the bearings several times add lots of good oil til it runs clear . Those old mills are made to work , there's a nice one near me but I'm unable to get to it. Hes got a whole shop of old machinery . Been on craigslist for months I asked for some prices but he wants a call , I have to watch calling my better half gets *****e even if I'm only looking online.
    In about seven hours I'll be getting another epidural shot I hope it does something better this time. I'm afraid it's gonna be operation time and I wasted months fartin around with these pain Dr. One hand washes the other for them overpriced pansy boys. Never did a days work in there lives. Lift in them books is hard.oh well scared to death cause last back.operations left me a quadrapertic . Another slip and full blubbering idiot or something. Shoot guess I'm DERN near it lol .Good luck with your mill I hope she turns out looking like new and tight .
     
  13. cathead

    cathead Active User Active Member

    Likes Received:
    623
    Trophy Points:
    93
    City:
    Bemidji
    State:
    Minnesota

    -Return to Top-

    You need to vee it out and get the mating surfaces clean. Then clamp the pieces together and fill in the vee grooves with brass. I used
    an acetylene torch. No specific cool down procedure is really needed I don't think so just let it cool in free air. The slow cooling
    procedure is more needed had I welded it with a cast iron rod. Even then for a break like that it probably wouldn't be necessary.
    Slow cooling mandatory for welding up something like a crack however and drill stop the ends of the crack, peen the heck out of
    it and cool slowly, hot ashes works good for that.
     
  14. cathead

    cathead Active User Active Member

    Likes Received:
    623
    Trophy Points:
    93
    City:
    Bemidji
    State:
    Minnesota

    -Return to Top-


    Yes, I like the idea of transmission fluid and some kind of solvent. I will test run the mill as soon as I come up with enough wire
    to reach the RPC in the shop. It's all together now with the exception of hooking up the two speed drive motor. The bearings seem to
    have a pretty stout preload on them so I'm guessing they are OK. I had to use a skid steer to
    set the motor on top of the mill. I estimate the two speed motor to weigh in at close to 200 pounds. The relay and breakers can be seen in this photo. That will be looked at as soon
    as we can get some 3 phase power to the mill.

    Good luck on your epidural shot. It's no fun struggling along and not seeing much improvement. Hopefully you will be rebounding soon.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2017
  15. cathead

    cathead Active User Active Member

    Likes Received:
    623
    Trophy Points:
    93
    City:
    Bemidji
    State:
    Minnesota

    -Return to Top-

    A bit more progress today went on. I made a pair of X axis stops as there were none on the machine. Also I fixed the
    X axis table stop that had no handle. And I reworked the quill feed stop as it was stuck and rusty. It took a couple hours of cleaning
    and now it spins really nice on those fine threads and some light oil. The four electrical switches
    from top to bottom are High speed, low speed, off, and HOPEFULLY up and down power feed for the Z axis. The bottom switch turns both left and right.....Otherwise it's ::weight:


     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2017
  16. FOMOGO

    FOMOGO United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    1,129
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Colorado
    City:
    Steamboat Springs
    State:
    Colorado

    -Return to Top-

    You're really rolling right along on on the mill. Amazing what a little determination and elbow grease will accomplish. Hope that power-feed on the Z works out for you. Mike
     
  17. cathead

    cathead Active User Active Member

    Likes Received:
    623
    Trophy Points:
    93
    City:
    Bemidji
    State:
    Minnesota

    -Return to Top-

    Hi Mike,

    If it turns out not to have powered Z, I have a couple of direct current wheel chair gear reduction motor drives that would work
    and not too hard to do. :idea: Being direct current, motor reversal would be easy. I'm beginning to think that the left-right switch on
    the control head is to reverse the spindle.........:dunno: I work on the mill every day so it is moving right along. :steamroller:

    Tomorrow I hope to get power to the mill and see if everything works. :blowup:
     
    FOMOGO likes this.
  18. Silverbullet

    Silverbullet Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    689
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Marlton
    State:
    New Jersey

    -Return to Top-

    I've watched many old machines brought back to the life they were ment live. I believe any machine built during the war years and that era. Are the best the nation has ever produced. This old Gorton is proof all ready , ill even bet if the electrics are cleaned and lubed in the moving parts will still work like they did when new. Our nation has turned into the throw away buy new and replace. New shiny paint and chrome over old dingy gray 2 tons of cast iron. The question why no decent small machines , we aren't willing to pay , that's why.
    Cathead I'm glad and proud to see your mill. Like I said wish I could get to the guy in Pennsylvania and to his shop. He has a ton of machines. Screw machines , turret lathes , monarch lathe ww11 , big punch press , several small mills with both H + V , Gorton mill and tons of tooling.
    Had the epidural shot early home by 10, got back in bed around 11,15 , went thru same side affects about 7 hrs, constant urinating , about 8.30 seeming more normal , this time I forced myself to drink lots of fluids , don't need another er trip. Pretty stiff in back some pain but not the stabbing uncontrolled yet will see over the next week or so. I've got to get in my shop seven machines waiting to be put into use. Some will be easy others more . I'm livin through you guys on here now , hopping I can get the shop I've always wanted before I depart.
     
    cathead likes this.
  19. cathead

    cathead Active User Active Member

    Likes Received:
    623
    Trophy Points:
    93
    City:
    Bemidji
    State:
    Minnesota

    -Return to Top-


    Hopefully things will get better for you. I have empathy for you suffering with pain like that. I have a few aches and pains too
    but keep plodding along, doing what I can do. I used to be able to carry a heavy log balanced on my shoulder but pain stops
    me from doing that any more. Maybe if I put a pillow on my shoulder first, I could still do it but it's probably best not to push my luck.
    I have learned that it is probably in my best interest not to try and be like Paul Bunyan any more. :weight:
    The Gorton is a little older than me and maybe in better shape , who really knows. I take big interest in refurbishing old
    machines and machinery of the past. I can't imagine how many warehouses full of old machines that are just waiting for
    someone to take an interest. Where I live in the north woods, there isn't much old iron around so when I locate something local,
    I take a big interest. I'm betting the mill will work when it gets power without too much attention. The electrical boxes are
    full of relays and resets so will be getting into that next. The cover on the Cuttler-Hammer box is gone but the scrap guys
    think it's around somewhere. :dunno: Maybe today I will do some looking myself over there. Otherwise I will have to fabricate
    a cover to fit. Once it's up and running, it will proudly reside in the corner of the shop happy to make chips once again.:):):)
     
  20. HSS

    HSS United States Active User Active Member

    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    38
    City:
    Pine Bluff
    State:
    Arkansas

    -Return to Top-

    Cathead, my 9J has a hydraulic cylinder and a hand crank on the knee but I have never used the hydraulics. It was disconnected when I got it and have only used the hand crank. Does your 9J have the hydraulics on the knee, kinda hard to tell from the pics.
    Great find, by the way!
     
    cathead likes this.
  21. cathead

    cathead Active User Active Member

    Likes Received:
    623
    Trophy Points:
    93
    City:
    Bemidji
    State:
    Minnesota

    -Return to Top-

    No, sorry to say that I am going to have to hand crank until something better comes along.
     
  22. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    2,089
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Victoria, Texas
    City:
    Victoria
    State:
    Texas

    -Return to Top-

    Cathead,

    I just notice in one of your pictures of the mill. You have one of the older ones probably built before 1940. Look for the serial number, it should be stamped on the back side of the mill column, just below the handwheel where you tighten the motor vee belt. Post it and I'll look at my page and let you know the year it was built.
    As for the selector switch on front of the mill, I suspect that was for the coolant pump. Gorton did not provide means of reversing the spindle on their mill. If you wanted for-rev, you wired in a 3-pole toggle switch at the control panel. That's how two of our Gorton's were wired up. BTW, 9-J's built sometime after 1940 had the electrics mounted in a recessed cabinet in the housing of the mill instead on the outside. As I said earlier, make sure the motor leads are clearly marked, at the pecker head as well as in the cabinet. There is no diagram on the motor indicating which wire goes to which leg on the motor. Plus one leg is shared with both low and high speed. You'll find that out sorting thru the wires in the cabinet! Ken

    Oh, I think I mentioned it in one the PM's the other day, when you get power to the mill, check the feed motor and make sure it feeds the right direction when you put it in gear. Also make sure the spindle is running the right direction. If it's not, I'm pretty sure the power feed is reversed too. Just swap two of your three leads coming into the mill that should fix it. You'll figure it out.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2017
    cathead likes this.
  23. cathead

    cathead Active User Active Member

    Likes Received:
    623
    Trophy Points:
    93
    City:
    Bemidji
    State:
    Minnesota

    -Return to Top-


    Ken,

    Yesterday I had some time to wire things up and do the smoke test. The quill motor runs fine as does the feed motor and
    gears. So I have automated X and Y now. All the electrical stuff is a mess and somewhat damaged but I was able to do
    some repairs and rewiring. The wires were somewhat corroded on the terminals and the relay contacts needed attention.
    It would be easy to add the reversal with a double pole double throw switch. I may go to a VFD later as well, time will tell.
    Your post has a lot of valuable information in it for me or anyone else wiring up a machine. One thing I have not figured out
    yet is this: There is a left-off-right switch on the bottom of the mill switches. When the quill is not running, the switch operates the
    feed when turned to the left but not the right. It turns on the feed(same direction) either left or right when the quill is operating.
    Probably a wire or two got moved over the years to cause this. It is somewhat difficult to diagnose as it is hard to determine
    where the switch wires are going. It's not a big deal I guess, maybe a project for when I get bored, probably next winter...
    The serial number is 19161. I notice on the top of the quill( near the draw bar top) are some left handed threads which are
    likely used to loosen the BS10 taper. There is no nut on there. Do I need to make up a left hand threaded nut that pushes
    up on the end of the draw bar? It isn't apparent to me exactly what it's all about. There was no cover on the main Cuttler-Hammer
    relay box so I made one out of sheet metal. It isn't as nice as an original but at least covers the hot wires ETC.

    It just occured to me regarding the left-off-right switch that the wiring could be correct. Left would run the feed with the
    quill off and right would run the feed AND the oil pump in the right position. The oil pump isn't hooked up at present. I may
    clean it up and wire it but likely will not be using it. Today I will clean out the greasy gummy. ikky, rotton, stinking,
    putrid, nasty, vile, detestful, oil sump, something I have been putting off!

    On higher speeds, the main motor and belt drive seems kind of noisy to me but everything(bearings) are nice and
    tight. Possibly the bearings are not the best in the quill...
    THE BOTTOM LINE: EVERYTHING WORKS NOW!!!!:dancing banana:
     
    4gsr, Bob Korves and BGHansen like this.
  24. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    2,089
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Victoria, Texas
    City:
    Victoria
    State:
    Texas

    -Return to Top-

    Originally, the factory install, had a push button contactor/ switch on the side of the mill next to the main contactor. Same for the coolant pump. Neither one was controlled from the pendant control the spindle is run from, originally. Looks like someone added a selector switch to the pendant to control the feed motor from.

    Hey, it's your mill now, run it as you please! Who cares how it was setup when it left the factory.

    Enjoy! Oh, I haven't for got about the s/n lookup. I'll do that next.

    Ken

    S/N 19161 = 1943 to 1944.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Apr 7, 2017
    cathead likes this.
  25. Silverbullet

    Silverbullet Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    689
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Marlton
    State:
    New Jersey

    -Return to Top-

    There's just nothing better then a beefy big old mill. She will just work her cast off for you. Not like the puddied up cast they use in China. Consider yourself lucky I sure wish I could get more of the machines that won the wars. I new the old motor would run , I bet the bearings quiet down too. They get the old grease warmed up and flowing. Keep her working she loves it.
     
    cathead and 4gsr like this.
  26. cathead

    cathead Active User Active Member

    Likes Received:
    623
    Trophy Points:
    93
    City:
    Bemidji
    State:
    Minnesota

    -Return to Top-

    A little update on the 9J mill:

    The X axis feed rod(acme) now pretty straight and running smoothly now. I'm working on making an adapter from BS10 to ER-40
    so I can run all my end mills and stuff. I still need to clean the GUNK out of the bottom of the mill. Then it will be on to
    a paint job. I scraped off all the olive drab so down to the original bluish gray color.
    I can't decide if I should do the original color or possibly black with green trim(like the old Model A) or maybe
    black with almond trim.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2017
  27. Scruffy

    Scruffy Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    90
    Trophy Points:
    28
    City:
    RichwoodOhio
    State:
    Ohio

    -Return to Top-

    If you go farther down on the gorgon section you can read my questions on x arises direction. Mine was reversed . You can tell by your By your x axis stops they should push control to neutral.
    I have a lot of manuals for a 9-j if you need copies. My sn is 34721 if4gsr can date it for me.
    Thanks scruffy
     
  28. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    2,089
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Victoria, Texas
    City:
    Victoria
    State:
    Texas

    -Return to Top-

Share This Page